tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post114917255205843122..comments2024-02-26T10:25:52.212-08:00Comments on The Radical Libertarian: Using "the poor" as a moral totemAaron Kinneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12059982934663353474noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149457892317139852006-06-04T14:51:00.000-07:002006-06-04T14:51:00.000-07:00I'm sorry, but I see no reason for you to be offen...I'm sorry, but I see no reason for you to be offended. We'll just have to accept that we don't see eye to eye on this.Francois Tremblayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04760072622693359795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149457600510468472006-06-04T14:46:00.000-07:002006-06-04T14:46:00.000-07:00I see it as an insult to tell me to "get off your ...I see it as an insult to tell me to "get off your ignorant arrogance," whatever that may have implied. Perhaps I shouldn’t have taken it to heart, but I was offended. Yet, when did I imply arrogance? Ignorant of what? I have read enough on the subjects at hand to have a full understanding, or at least enough to have piqued my interest. I am merely bringing up details that need to be answered, and I'd like to hear your solutions to problems that could occur. Do not patronize me.<BR/><BR/><I>”If you come on Skype and we can talk vocally, I wouldn't mind that much, but I don't like writing.”</I> Thank you for the offer, but I must decline. Perhaps some other time, but I’m not comfortable speaking over Skype – especially when our conversation could devolve into heated argument. I’d rather, if you don’t mind, have a chance to mull ideas over before responding, not blurting out something I may regret later.<BR/><BR/>I do consider myself a rabid libertarian in theory, yet what you are attempting is akin to playing a game of darts where you shut your eyes, spin around a few times, then pray that when you release the handful of darts, they'd actually hit the mark. You have to admit that what you’re proposing could easily go in a vastly wrong direction. Even if one dart was to hit the bull’s-eye, there's also a big chance that somebody's going to get their eye poked out. In theory, your plan is perfect, yet in reality, libertarianism still has some issues that must be resolved.tnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18150533469330483877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149436744558268732006-06-04T08:59:00.000-07:002006-06-04T08:59:00.000-07:00"I have no issue with your essay, francois. It was..."I have no issue with your essay, francois. It was an interesting read, and I do agree with your fundamental ideals on the subject - yet you never answered any of my questions, only choosing a sentence to tear apart and then insulting me."<BR/><BR/>I did not insult you. I'm really glad that you liked my entry, but you are obviously way over your head both on the facts and on the theory. So that's why I recommend that you get rid of some of the ignorance first. <BR/><BR/>This is not anarchy101 class, I am not going to teach you everything starting from basic morality going to public goods theory - that would just be a waste of time for me. If you come on Skype and we can talk vocally, I wouldn't mind that much, but I don't like writing.Francois Tremblayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04760072622693359795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149426141536642282006-06-04T06:02:00.000-07:002006-06-04T06:02:00.000-07:00I have no issue with your essay, francois. It was ...I have no issue with your essay, francois. It was an interesting read, and I <I>do</I> agree with your fundamental ideals on the subject - yet you never answered any of my questions, only choosing a sentence to tear apart and then insulting me. <BR/><BR/>I'm in your camp too, just trying to stretch your mind a little. I still want to know if we can trade in slaves. I want to know if our lives would be any better, or if this would just benefit a select few. I want to know that if my house is burning down, I have to have a contract with one of the firehouse companies to have them put the fire out.<BR/><BR/>As a old-fashioned conservative on these issues, I want to know what <I>will</I> happen as much as possible, not make brash decisions that could topple the value of the dollar, make the rich richer, poor poorer, and degrade life for everyone. Being cautious, I want to follow the evidence meticulously, not blindly follow dogma. I want to know that those who would hold power would be accountable. I want your predictions and opinions on the subject, even though I do agree with you a good deal of the time. I certainly don't want to be called arrogant and ignorant.tnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18150533469330483877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149393529807388722006-06-03T20:58:00.001-07:002006-06-03T20:58:00.001-07:00"yet I recall that the government routinely takes ..."yet I recall that the government routinely takes action against monopolies such as De Beers, Enron and Microsoft, stopping inane prices and degradation to the economy. Without the state, monopolies would be in fertile soil."<BR/><BR/>None of these were monopolies. Enron was around 30% market share. Microsoft is around 85% in personal OSes. So what the fuck are you talking about? The only way you can have a monopoly is when the state is involved. The state itself is the biggest, most costly and most murderous monopoly of all.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"[2] What rights would we have without a government? It sounds like any crime is permissible without any laws."<BR/><BR/>Apparently you don't understand the market anarchy concept. Crime would not be "permissible" - there would be companies capturing criminals and dealing with them. It would be done by the security markets, not by a monopoly of force - which, as you know yourself, is a very, very bad thing.<BR/><BR/>I would encourage you to get off your ignorant arrogance and read more on the topic at:<BR/>www.simplyanarchy.comFrancois Tremblayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04760072622693359795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149389227171536392006-06-03T19:47:00.000-07:002006-06-03T19:47:00.000-07:00It's fairly obvious that the corrupt state is a we...It's fairly obvious that the corrupt state is a weak patsy for the wealthy to anyone not in a coma. I enjoyed reading your in-depth essay, however, I do have two questions:<BR/><BR/>[1] You said that <I>"...states, in fact, do not help the poor. No measure has ever been established that could help the problem of poverty. From foreign aid programs that fatten dictators' wallets, to welfare systems that prevent savings and keep people entrapped, to minimum wage laws that keep the unemployed in poverty, states uniformly attack, first and foremost, the least fortunate,"</I> yet I recall that the government routinely takes action against monopolies such as <A HTTP://WWW.THEATLANTIC.COM/DOC/198202/DIAMOND “ HREF="”" REL="nofollow">De Beers</A>, Enron and Microsoft, stopping inane prices and degradation to the economy. Without the state, monopolies would be in fertile soil. When goods are owned by one, and only one company, we're in a good deal of trouble. Wouldn't the quality of life for the average citizen be worse off than it is now? <BR/><BR/>[2] What rights would we have without a government? It sounds like any crime is permissible without any laws. If I was to beat the living stuffing out of you, take your wallet and run away, what could you do to stop me? As Eric Schlosser deftly says, “Despite the best of libertarian intentions, giving unchecked freedom to one group usually means denying it to another.” Who could you turn to? We all can't take the law into our own hands. Better yet, with no laws in place, what if we decided to traffic in slaves? It’s a perfect commodity to trade in.<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that your theory, while very intelligent and enjoyable, is in reality far from reasonable. Just as the anachro-communist, you seem happy giving up our rights so that we can be "free." As you note, "as if people would just voluntarily give up all their rights." Absolutely! Remember: never be a slave to logic and reason.tnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18150533469330483877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149350901083332272006-06-03T09:08:00.000-07:002006-06-03T09:08:00.000-07:00Incidentally, there is a great article on Mises to...Incidentally, there is a great article on Mises today on the stupidity of so-called "anarcho-communism" (as if people would just voluntarily give up all their rights):<BR/>http://www.mises.org/story/2197Francois Tremblayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04760072622693359795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149286739829504702006-06-02T15:18:00.000-07:002006-06-02T15:18:00.000-07:00The link is just above the quote. But here it is a...The link is just above the quote. But here it is again:<BR/>http://uberkuh.com/node/623Francois Tremblayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04760072622693359795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149285745888546822006-06-02T15:02:00.000-07:002006-06-02T15:02:00.000-07:00Nice analysis of the fact that the statist thinks ...Nice analysis of the fact that the statist thinks that there will ALWAYS be a power center and that their argument is reduced to who GETS to control that power. <BR/><BR/>The statist says: <BR/><BR/>Market Anarchy is bad because the corporations will take power and coerce everyone. Therefore, we need a state to take power and coerce everyone.Aaron Kinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12059982934663353474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149283242789784632006-06-02T14:20:00.000-07:002006-06-02T14:20:00.000-07:00"Just go check out the actual post if you want to ..."Just go check out the actual post if you want to get a real sense of what the discussion was about."<BR/><BR/>I'm surprised you want MORE people to see what a fool you are. But hey, whatever makes you horny.Francois Tremblayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04760072622693359795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149282394950701262006-06-02T14:06:00.000-07:002006-06-02T14:06:00.000-07:00Just go check out the actual post if you want to g...Just go check out the actual post if you want to get a real sense of what the discussion was about.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708796218860983185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18934603.post-1149254019420877552006-06-02T06:13:00.000-07:002006-06-02T06:13:00.000-07:00Applause!This has to be one of the best essays I'v...Applause!<BR/><BR/>This has to be one of the best essays I've read in a while! I may link to it from my own blog....Libertarian Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00815987219915647233noreply@blogger.com